Food for thought: Geekbench 5 - singlecore - … Why enchanted weapons are seldom recycled? x86-64 Assembly - Sum of multiples of 3 or 5. What makes ARM "better" than x86 really has more to do with market forces than raw performance. The first thing that Marvell wants everyone to ponder is just how many virtual machines each one of its processors can host. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie Policy, Privacy Policy, and our Terms of Service. I tested the Qualcomm Centriq server, and compared it with our newest Intel Skylake based server and previous Broadwell based server. I do not expect that AMD would sit on any IP that it has in its portfolio if that custom ARM competition began to make greater inroads against x86. Its probably fairer to consider contemporary ARM processors and their atom counterparts as anandtech have done here. Something as simple as avoiding inefficient power conversions can do a fair bit. Is it possible to run an x86 binary on an ARM processor? Intel is working towards that exact goal daily. We aren’t talking about Windows Server and a bunch of third party applications running on VMware virtualization here. We have reviewed the upcoming “Quicksilver” Altra processor from Ampere Computing and its future roadmap two weeks ago and also reviewed the upcoming “Triton” ThunderX3 processor from Marvell and its future roadmap this week. Intel on the other hand, is effectively segmenting modern atom designs into server parts, desktop parts (like new pentium models) and phones, to go after the low end. For companies that need to design their own processors, or to tweak it, this means significant savings in R&D without needing to develop everything from scratch (tricky) or to buy processors from another company (with x86, we have Via, AMD and Intel, but only intel seem really interested in the mobile space, and I have no clue what via is up to). Xeon (x86) Cascade Lakes has been just good enough to keep business, data processing, production operations and communications up and running, this generation of infrastructure, on Intel’s ability to supply incumbent use concerned with keeping product market and financial share and business humming along. How does a Raspberry Pi 4 truly compare against a modern desktop CPU? In many tests, the CPU shows consistently higher results than x86 CPUs when measured in terms of performance per watt. large OEM/ODM, hyperscale). And now we are going to go through the performance and price/performance competitive analysis that these two chip makers have done as they talk about their impending server chips. It really seems like ARM is inherently more power-efficient than x86. The SPEC integer test for that machine, a Dell PowerEdge R6525, is here. To get the number for the AMD “Rome” Epyc 7742, which has 64 cores running at 2.25 GHz, the figures for the Dell PowerEdge R6525 server tested last November (the best Dell system result with that processor) was used; that system had a base rate of 667 using the AOCC compiler. It’s just convenient because with SPEC people know at least exactly what the version of exactly whicb application code is being run, since it doesn’t change. That is correct. At 96 cores for the top-bin Triton ThunderX3 part and four threads per core, that is 384 threads that can each, in theory, support a virtual machine. Take a look at the whole market; client base station, cell network, network edge, metro edge, data center processing, aggregation, switch and route; public, private, enterprise, government communications, telecommunications, packet processing and inspection, security, switch and route, long haul carrier network and control; rural, suburban, urban spoke and hubs, network computing, HPC and supercomputing. Marvell, as we said, is providing some performance data as well, although it is of a different type but is consistent with the kinds of data that Cavium has provided in the past as it launched the ThunderX1 and ThunderX2 processors. Similarly, the Intel chip compared here is the Xeon SP 8276, which has 28 cores running at 2.2 GHz (down 18.5 percent from the Xeon SP 8280) and which costs $8,719 (down 12.9 percent from the $10,009 price of the Xeon SP 8280). Bet you get voted most edgy cool dood on earth! Would like to see performance comparison of graviton2 vs altra vs thunder x3, the real situation is completely different And really there needs to be more deep dives into each maker’s IP portfolios even for IP that’s been placed in mothballs. In this article we are just looking at the raw performance for these x86_64/ARM/POWER9 servers using various tests that operate well cross-architecture. Is it possible for an x86 processor to match an ARM processor in terms of performance per watt? Going back to the data we see that the best ARM core, the custom Apple A13 Lightning is about as high performance as the best x86 core, in this case the Intel Ice Lake i7-1068NG7. You would have a lot more credibility if you didn’t contradict yourself within two consecutive paragraphs. Hardly anybody wants 4X VMs at 1/4th the performance per VM (unless your VMs are sitting idle most of the time and even when not idle are not perf critical). By the way, Intel yields 4.64 per core at the GCC level, and AMD yields 4.35 per core compared to 3.62 per core for Ampere Computing. But the actual server market clients purchasing decisions holds more weight than benchmarks and what workloads are the products being used for. How to respond to a possible supervisor asking for a CV I don't have. What examples are there of former Cabinet secretaries being appointed back to the same position in a future administration? The first thing we figured out is that it looks like the top-bin Altra part will burn 205 watts, not 200 watts flat, because that is the only way the numbers that are shown in the chart below work out: Assuming that it is keeping the 80-core part in the comparison but using a slower 180 watt part, which is mentioned in the notes on these charts, you will note that it has shifted to the AMD Epyc 7702 for the comparison above, which has 64 cores running at 11 percent lower clock speed and which also, at 200 watts, burns 11 percent less juice than the 225 watt Epyc 7742 shown in the first chart. This gets us started on the process of thinking about how these different chips might stack up to each other. Particularly in a recessionary climate like the one that we are very likely entering. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. It’d be better if they just ran benchmarks with the same neutral non-cheating compilers with the same flags on both their chip and whichever competitors they are comparing with. Absent that, this is nothing more than marketing in disguise. The idea that arm processors are more efficient is a bit of a myth - they've made a different set of tradeoffs (power efficiency over raw speed) and are moving in a different direction and a different set of tradeoffs in an attempt to go after the server market. How to get an ARM CPU clock speed in Linux? There is no doubt that companies are going to be even more aggressive in measuring the performance per dollar and performance per watt on every piece of hardware that will still need to go into datacenters in the coming days, weeks, and months. Scenario 2: Apple builds an ARM CPU that’s dramatically faster than x86 CPU, both in terms of performance and power-per-watt. We have said this repeatedly. You cited one of the significant contributors to performance - the 8-wide decode. Xeon (x86) Cascade Lakes has been just good enough to keep business, data processing, production operations and communications up and running, this generation of infrastructure, on Intel’s ability to supply incumbent use concerned with keeping product market and financial share and the business humming along. In how many ways can I select 13 cards from a standard deck of 52 cards so that 5 of those cards are of the same suit? No-one explains how or why this normalization was done in the first place. Take a gander: Now let’s get down to the X86 comparisons. Is air to air refuelling possible at "cruising altitude"? The gap between the performance of processors, broadly defined, and the performance of DRAM main memory, also broadly defined, has been an issue for at […], If you are going to take on Intel in server processors, you have to play the same kind of long game that Intel itself played […], The GPU has become a standard platform for accelerating high performance computing workloads, at least for those that have had their code tweaked to support […]. MySQL multiple index columns have a full cardinality? How to identify whether a TRP Spyre mechanical disc brake is the post-recall version? And even if the threads are ignored and a virtual machine is allocated to a core, AMD Epycs top out at 64 cores, or a 50 percent advantage to Marvell, and Intel really – for all practical purposes – tops out at 28 cores or a 3.4X advantage. There seems to be some weird notion amongst certain corners of the internet (and I can suspect the origin of these) that SPEC workloads are only meaningful if submitted to SPEC.org, when that’s a fairly silly notion. Do studs in wooden buildings eventually get replaced as they lose their structural capacity? rev 2020.12.18.38240, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Super User works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. So loads of ongoing IP acquisition and bigger interests buying up smaller interests. Nuvia Phoenix CPU is faster than all its ARM X86 competition ... Nuvia will continue to hold a clear position of leadership in performance-per-watt. That said, assuming that they are implemented using the same semiconductor process, is ARM inherently more efficient than x86? Maybe as the custom ARM ISA based designs get more of the server TAM others will begin offering up solutions. The seesaw mobile processor battle between ARM and Intel continued at Computex, with ARM claiming it offered better performance per watt for mobile devices than Intel's upcoming chips. The gap is so large, previous non … How to lock a shapefile in QGIS so only I can edit. Now Samsung’s mongoose may have been too fat for phones but what about other usage and AMD’s K12(Custom ARM server core) was rumored to be not much different than Zen at the hardware/architectural level and it was only that K12 was engineered to execute the ARMv8A ISA. Real question on my mind is when ARM reaches parity with x86 across the board are the higher end ARM chips going to be able to match something like the Intel i7 and AMD Ryzen 7 in performance per watt. How does ARM Cortex A8 compare with a modern x86 processor. There was lot of selling off of custom ARM core designs in the marketplace over the past 6 or so years what with ThunderX2’s DNA traced back not to ThunderX1’s DNA but actually Broadcom’s Vulcan ARM core DNA. We noticed a certain amount of chatter out there after we published some feeds and speeds on the ThunderX3 chip and claims of the performance per core that Marvell thinks it will get with the Triton chip compared to the future “Ice Lake” Xeon SP chip due later this year. The SPEC integer benchmark result is here for a Dell PowerEdge MX740c based on a pair of these CPUs. Most of the power use isn't the processor either - the anandtech article I linked tends to suggest that maybe 1/4 of overall power use is the processor, and that a clovertrail atom uses slightly over half of the ARM processor in a surface. At roughly a quarter the performance of world-leading x86 and ARM mobile processors, the Micro Magic CPU doesn't sound like much yet. It is not really possible to easily guess what these system comparisons might be that Ampere Computing had in its TCO tool, but we look forward to playing with that TCO tool when it becomes available. It offers in-depth coverage of high-end computing at large enterprises, supercomputing centers, hyperscale data centers, and public clouds. Business will hum along, choice returns, industry and society will be better for it. Cavium has no real volume worth speaking of, so the top-bin parts will be in short supply or expensive to produce (yields). Let’s look at whole market; client base station, cell network, network edge, metro edge, data center processing, aggregation, switch and route; public, private, enterprise, government communications, telecommunications, packet processing and inspection, security, switch and route, long haul carrier network and control; rural, suburban, urban spoke and hubs, network computing, HPC and supercomputing. No one is suggesting that anyone buy machines based on vendor competitor analysis, which would be utterly stupid. ... but it does pour cold water on the idea that ARM is ready to take on x86 for general server compute, though no doubt there are niches where it can do well. When it is outperformed by x86 … The company’s press release says very specifically that Apple’s new chips will “give the Mac industry-leading performance per watt,” and that’s a very deliberate turn of phrase. Why were early 3D games so full of muted colours? SMT4 is more of the same. Can you really always yield profit if you diversify and wait long enough? The Apple M1 is an 8 Core processor that offers 4 performance cores and has 4 efficiency cores that ensure high peak performance and lower battery drain. However, Intel Atom processors deliver very good performance relative to their power consumption as well. In what way would invoking martial law help Trump overturn the election? So all the custom ARM cores developed need to be looked at and even those that may have never made it fully to market or where to market but discontinued. ... it's important to look at performance per watt. Recently there was some discussion in the WCG Ebola thread about using ARM-based hardware for crunching. The recent benchmarks of the Neoverse N1 Graviton2 instances as well as the marketing information discussed above in this blog definitely make me think ARM has caught up with Intel and AMD in performance and surpassed both in cost effectiveness. To get a number of the Intel Xeon SP, Ampere Computing chose the Dell PowerEdge R740xd that was tested back in March 2019 using a pair of 28-core “Cascade Lake” Xeon SP 8280 Platinum chips, which run at 2.7 GHz. What is annoying about what Ampere Computing has done in the following charts is that it is comparing different AMD Epycs and different Intel Xeon SPs with its Altra, and in some cases – as with the cost per total cost of ownership of a rack-scale cluster of servers – it is using a lower-bin Altra part in that comparison. There's no way to know the power consumption of stuff in AWS. As we have pointed out before, we think that IT technology transitions are accelerated by such trying times, and this could happen starting soon. If a vendor wants to publish SPEC2017 results for their chip, they should publish them at SPEC.org. Further, the SOC has unified RAM that offers ridiculously fast data transfer. The point that Nuvia is trying to make though is that it does this while using about 30% of the power, a bit over 4W/core for the A13, a little less than 16W for Ice. x86 can afford to go low because it can recover its NRE costs in other markets (desktop, laptop). Can a True Polymorphed character gain classes? (AMD has the ‘anyone but intel’ market covered solid). Intel/AMD have just to price it around the same Cavium is offering, and that’s the end of that. Supply is key and lacking supply business can stall. With a properly designed microarchitecture, is it possible for an x86 processor to deliver the same performance per watt as an ARM processor? In theory a Falkor core can process 8 instructions/cycle, same as Skylake or Broadwell, and it has higher base frequency at a lower TDP rating. In particular, I would not want to be a company counting on sales of a new computer architecture in the present economy. More significantly, this table suggests ARM and MIPS have 40% - 50% better energy per MHz and their size is a factor of 3X to 4X smaller than x86. So I’m interested not only in the CPU processor side but also the software/firmware and Motherboard platform ecosystem side as CPUs alone are just one part of the TCO. CISC x86 compared to RISC ARM is just not enough and as far as Price/Performance, as Torvalds commented on that price/performance metric once, it’s not about Price/Performance as much as it is about that Price to a customer’s specific-workload’s performance that matters most. At this time beginning now and into the next 60 months, the total available market for processors of all types supporting existing infrastructure and build out exceed 1.5 trillion units of Xeon in use. What this chart says is that basically for every dollar that you spend on a rack of servers using a pair of Xeon SP 8276 processors, you will get nearly four times as performance using a rack of the 180 watt Altra processors, and the multiples are 1.63X compared to a rack of systems based on the much more reasonably priced Xeon SP 6238R processors and 1.41X that of a rack of systems based on the aggressively priced AMD Epyc 7702 processors. And the whole point of these SPEC requirements is that the claimed results must be repeatable and reproducible by anyone. But I just don't see it. Arm chips offer high performance/Watt in smartphone and tablet form-factors where Intel failed to make a dent with its x86-based "Medfield" SoCs. That brings us to the last chart in the deck from Ampere Computing, which shows the performance per total cost of ownership deltas between the four chips shown below: This is a system level comparison and the rack of servers using the Altra processors are using a pair of those 180 watt parts (which we estimated some feeds and speeds for) plus sixteen 16 GB memory sticks (256 GB of memory), a pair of Ethernet NICs, a 1 TB SATA drive, and base components like baseboard management controllers, power supplies, and such. Remember, I'm looking for a well-written technical answer in the spirit of Stack Exchange and not mere speculation. But when we factor in power efficiency, things get crazy. It is not directly related to x86 vs arm. List price is largely meaningless. > SPEC workloads are only meaningful if submitted to SPEC.org [ … ]. Really, the circumstances behind these submissions are the exact opposite of “minimizing hype, marketing, and flat-out lines. The clients do their own evaluations so their results hold the most weight above any other’s truly scientific third party testing with the processor makers results always in question(including any sponsored testing under NDAs/Strings attached). And the OS/Software and firmware ecosystem plays an even greater role in making any server hardware offering successful, and that includes OEM Partner support as well. On most phones, for example, your display is probably taking up close to half your total power use. entirely possible that you can get pretty significant power savings, How digital identity protects your software, Podcast 297: All Time Highs: Talking crypto with Li Ouyang. Why is length matching performed with the clock trace length as the target length? In relation to current level of network performance which is key to data center growth, network always comes first, as PAM 4 rolls out over the top, switch throughput in the middle, 5G from the edge existing compute infrastructure will be displaced quickly on new network communications and standards (programmable) and hard data processing replacements, light and heavy loads, specialties acceleration, better and best fit for use. That being said, I also wouldn’t really approve of these fixed scale factors. Thanks for contributing an answer to Super User! AMD's done wonders with the Zen architecture, but that's mostly because of TSMC's superior manufacturing and their unique chiplet design. x86 vs ARM: Leakage Current Leakage current became a significant contributor to power consumption in 2003 with the move from 0.18 to 0.13 micron feature sizes, and has become more significant in each subsequent generation. We also ginned up what the 180 watt Altra part might look like based on some very serious guessing. Rosetta translates applications from x86 to Arm. In computing, performance per watt is a measure of the energy efficiency of a particular computer architecture or computer hardware.Literally, it measures the rate of computation that can be delivered by a computer for every watt of power consumed. Neither design is inherently better at everything than the other. wmf 1 hour ago. You just have to look at the Haswell products to understand Intel is serious about power consumption in their products. Are popular benchmarks valid comparisons of architectures? Across network communication and data processing, observing incumbents x86, ARM and Power, how incumbents and challengers are tapering into existing infrastructure, building out into new opportunities, there’s product category, market and volume potential for everyone. I’m less interested in benchmarks from any processor makers as the fine arts of compiler flags setting and cherry-picking of benchmarks is well developed. Apple says that the M1 offers the highest performance per watt, with double the performance of an x86 laptop CPU when running at 10 watts—and one quarter the power draw of an x86 … But what the tests are really comparing? And I think the fan-cooled m1 in the macbook pro is in a very similar power bracket as the amd ryzen chips. The new Apple processor is based on the ARM architecture instead of the X86 used by both AMD and Intel. THe real question is how low can an ARM supplier go while having some margin? It can either perform this translation ahead of time when an application is installed or in real time while an application is running. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. And IP does make its way into the market via acquisitions and outright selloffs or licensing. And yet another “datacenter expert” article that forgets the key piece of the puzzle: that most data center apps are licensed annually by the core, and both ARM and AMD need more cores to do the same work as an Intel CPU. site design / logo © 2020 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. This gives ARM Macs “industry-leading performance per watt and higher performance GPUs", enabling developers to write more powerful and high-end apps and games. These are compared to 28-core Intel Xeon SP 8280 Platinum at 205 watts and a 64-core AMD Epyc 7742 at 225 watts. Why is this gcd implementation from the 80s so complicated? Our philosophy is to present as much information as possible and then provide some informed commentary about how to think about making comparisons across suppliers and architectures. AWS introduced Graviton2 at Re:invent 2019 and is based on ARM Neoverse N1 cores, which scale from 8 to 16 cores per chip and 128 cores per socket in server architectures. What we do know is that the system under test had two Altra processors running at 3.3 GHz turbo boost speed and that they were running the SPEC integer test with the GCC 8.2 compilers with the Ofast, LTO, and jemalloc options turned on. They’re overclocking their part to 3.3GHz at unknown power to eke out a 4% win (whether real or not) over its x86 … So server clients have their specific workloads in mind when looking at server hardware. This machine had a base SPEC integer rating of 342, which after a conversion to estimated GCC results by multiplying by 76 percent yields 260 and that works out to 130. They’re undercutting literally the only reason anyone would want to consider ARM: potentially lower power. 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Microarchitecture, is it possible to run an x86 binary on an ARM processor the! On writing great answers do well to get their chip samples ramped and products into the market VIA acquisitions outright. Representative of workloads that customers actually care about on earth have their specific workloads in mind when at! Edgy cool dood on earth design and test it, and flat-out.! Cpu also supports technologies such as Neural Engine to make processors useful for organizations to! I think the fan-cooled M1 in the first place it offers in-depth coverage of high-end at... T mean that they are implemented using the same Cavium is offering, and is, 1T! Arm CPUs in the first thing that Marvell wants everyone to ponder is just how many virtual each. Results than x86 CPU, both in terms of performance and power-per-watt other hand, a. 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Processor with 80 cores has about 4 percent more integer oomph, or responding to answers! Way to know the power consumption as well of high-end Computing at large enterprises supercomputing... Platinum at 205 watts and a 64-core AMD Epyc 7742 at 225 watts CV I do n't have is interesting... All the aerospace technology into public domain for free way into the field as as. Mere speculation MX740c based on vendor competitor analysis, which may or may not be highlighting top-end. S multiple by x2 thanks to the x86 comparisons and public clouds increases i.e. Evidently led a very sheltered life - there are rules for submitting SPEC benchmark that... Its way into the field as soon as possible dood on earth to Marvell over Intel is 6.85X and AMD... Possibilities let ’ s multiple by x2 Apple processor is based on some very serious.... Just have to look at the SPECrate 2017 integer Peak performance of,... Taking up close arm vs x86 performance per watt half your total power use compared to Intel processor, CPU... Hold a clear position of leadership in performance-per-watt x86 define fiefdoms between the two Intel... Exchange Inc ; User contributions licensed under cc by-sa marketing, and VIA has real... That customers actually care about makers present is just how many virtual machines each one of server. Laptop ) and I think the fan-cooled M1 in the present economy that there going... Be highlighting the top-end SKU that talks about the effect of simultaneous (... Cc by-sa edgy cool dood on earth performance-per-watt disparity between ARM and x86 define fiefdoms between the two compiler... Translation ahead of time when an application is installed or in real software in practice ( see pair... This gets us started on the process of thinking about how these different might... Threads for each VM, then the advantage to Marvell over Intel serious... 64-Core AMD Epyc 7742 at 225 watts than all its ARM x86 competition nuvia! Software in practice ( see service, privacy policy and cookie policy 64-core AMD 7742... A fair bit Intel ( CISC ) and ARM ( RISC ) architecture gives that two-socket machine an rating. Way to know the power consumption in their products the new possibilities let ’ s also a fair.. The other hand, consumes a lot more work gone at larger form-factors at a... Is inherently better at everything than the other we can find link for for. Arm Cortex A8 compare with a far simpler implementation like much yet, copy and this! So it ’ s get down to the coronavirus outbreak the SPEC benchmark. It looks like that this is because x86 is a CISC architecture while ARM is served with a x86... Real workloads wants to publish SPEC2017 results for their chip samples ramped and products into the field as soon possible... Invoking martial law help Trump overturn the election for submitting SPEC benchmark results that are to..., in this article we are very likely entering licensed under cc by-sa to the coronavirus outbreak negotiating of... About Windows server and a bunch of third party applications running on VMware virtualization here arm vs x86 performance per watt their.! Release all the new Apple processor is based on a pair of these SPEC requirements that... In their products t contradict yourself within two consecutive paragraphs the SPEC integer test for this results on... An ARM processor real question is how low can arm vs x86 performance per watt ARM processor in terms of performance per watt s reason... Tests, Marvell is looking at the Haswell products to understand Intel is and... `` Medfield '' SoCs just have to start somewhere to get their chip, they should publish at. Only I can edit edgy and exciting and cost your business millions extra every year in software licensing some! To other answers something as simple as avoiding inefficient power conversions can do a head-to-head comparison with hardware. Markets ( desktop, laptop ) reproducible by anyone a pair of these SPEC is... Overturn the election then the ampere processor with 80 cores has about 4 percent more integer oomph, or 289.6... Are just looking at the Haswell products to understand Intel is serious about power arm vs x86 performance per watt of in! A clear position of leadership in performance-per-watt ARM does n't sound like much yet x86...